Difference between revisions of "Template talk:Drop info"

Latest revision as of 00:29, 20 August 2008

No Drops

This one's just occurred to me - what about the case of items we can be reasonably sure do not drop from enemies/missions at all because they are available through other means, e.g. the shop? Currently the template has no way to accommodate this. The best you can do is leave it blank which causes (in this case) a rather misleading "Unknown" entry. - Miraglyth 19:29, 19 August 2008 (CDT)

Area and box drops

• My only gripe with this template is that if you put in that a drop is an area or box drop it links that as well. Would it be possible to get a SourceType parameter that could take the following arguments:
  • Area - the drop is an area drop (produces 'area' after whatever is in Source)
  • Box - the drop is from a normal box in the mission (produces 'box' after whatever is in Source)
  • Special box - the drop is from a specific box or set of boxes, e.g. Forest of Illusion S-rank drops or Diad from White Beast S (produces 'special box' after whatever is in Source)
  • Boss box - the drop is from boxes that appear after the mission has been completed (produces 'boss box' after whatever is in Source)
• So, say, if Source = Lightning Beasts and SourceType = Boss box the result would be 'Lightning Beasts boss box' Thoughts? - Mewn 07:01, 19 June 2008 (CDT)
• Oh, something else I thought about. As we know monster drops can differ between PSU and AoI missions, so two more arguments:
  • PSU - the drop only drops from this enemy in missions that appear in the original PSU (produces '( only)'
  • AOTI - the drop only drops from this enemy in missions that are AOTI-exclusive (produces '( only)'
• That should cover it. - Mewn 07:40, 19 June 2008 (CDT)

Here are some examples of how these new tables could look.

This example demonstrates various drop types: simple enemy drops, area drops, box drops and version-exclusive drops.

Drop information
Source	Level	Type
Kudetob	100-124	Weapon
Il Cabo Base area	80-149	Board
Dancing Birds boss box	S	Board
Lightning Beasts special box	S	Board
YG-01Z BUG ( only)	80-99	Weapon
Badira ( only)	50-69	Board

This example uses icons to identify the drop type. In the case of weapons, the template can easily apply the correct icon due to the weapon category being requested by the template. Also, I've changed the PSU and AOTI icons to text to see how that looks.

Drop information
Source	Level	Type
Kudetob	100-124
Il Cabo Base area	80-149
Dancing Birds boss box	S
Lightning Beasts special box	S
YG-01Z BUG (AOTI only)	80-99
Badira (PSU only)	50-69

Just throwing an idea around with the second example of something I've been considering for a while. Using icons in place of text to identify the drop type (weapon, board, line shield, etc.) can save a bit of space. I could do other examples that mix these two further, but I feel no need since it shouldn't be too hard to imagine elements of either intermingling. - EspioKaos 17:36, 21 June 2008 (CDT)

• I like the icons, certainly. Wonder if instead of (PSU only) or (AOTI only) we could just go with a whole new version column, e.g.

Drop information
Source	Level	Version	Type
Kudetob	100-124
Galenigare Mine area	80-149
Raffon Meadow area	50-149
Lightning Beasts special box	S
YG-01Z BUG	80-99
Badira	50-69

• Looks better than putting it in the source box, but might be a hassle to implement retroactively. - Mewn 18:10, 21 June 2008 (CDT)
  • I like it. As far as retroactively applying that, we could make the default value for the version parameter display both icons since most things seem to drop in both version of the game anyway. The exceptions to that shouldn't be too difficult for us to weed out. - EspioKaos 12:07, 22 June 2008 (CDT)

Template test

OK, so what I'm trying to do is make a drop template that will add new table rows automatically as we need them but will not display them if left blank. I thought that by using the if conditional to encase the code for the next row I'd be able to make it display only if Enemy2 were filled in. I also included the negative area to close the table at this point if Enemy2 were left blank. Didn't work out at all like I thought it would. So, anyone (with more experience with these things) got any suggestions? - EspioKaos 00:20, 13 April 2008 (CDT)

• I found a page that explains how to do exactly what it seems that you're doing. link Essentially, the "|-" used to start the next table row is being confused as part of the #if. The page suggests making a template that contains just the character "|" and use that to build the table inside the #if statement. Hopefully that makes a little sense. -Propagandist 00:53, 13 April 2008 (CDT)
  • Thanks for the link! I feel like I've made some progress, but visually I seem to be in the same place. XD I'll have to work more on this later. - EspioKaos 01:54, 13 April 2008 (CDT)
• I've faced exactly the same problem in the past, except where I really wanted a variable amount of rows. I really intended to include a counter in the template that would allow for more possible parameter names (such as Enemy1, Enemy2, etc.), but this did not appear to be possible. So as an alternative, I only templated the rows to be able to replicate them as easy as possible. The article is this; details here. Now my question to you is why you removed it from the article some time ago. Sure, less chaotic list of links to monsters was missing, but your edit only replicated the category equivalent and got rid of some other info, however outdated and tl;dr it might have been. >_< - Tycho 02:33, 13 April 2008 (CDT)
  • Heh, outdated and messy was my reasoning. I figured since each enemy article would cover everything and more than that table, the table wasn't needed anymore. <_<; Sorry about that. But, in case you didn't know, bea saved the article on his user page so you don't have to access it from page history. If wanted, I'm sure we could always revive the article similar to what was done with the mission chart to clean things up and bring the data up to date. - EspioKaos 10:59, 13 April 2008 (CDT)
• If you just want to be able to add Enemy1, Enemy2... through to Enemy10 or so, then have a look at the character profile template, which Tych and myself spent ages working out back in 2k6 so it could do that. You'll probably understand why though - it's enormous. With only enemy, level and type to enter though, I can't imagine it'd be quite so intimidating. - Miraglyth 09:20, 13 April 2008 (CDT)
  • I actually remembered that page and have been trying to adapt it. I might just do a full-on copy+paste of code to see if it'll work.
    --Kit 09:23, 13 April 2008 (CDT)
  • Seems after some stumbling over eachother, we got it! XD
    --Kit 09:35, 13 April 2008 (CDT)
  • Haha, sorry about that. Seems we both came to the same result too. - Miraglyth 09:36, 13 April 2008 (CDT)
• There, even have a default for the unreleased items that we've zero drop information about! Nothing like a clusterfuck of edits to create productivity! XD
  --Kit 09:51, 13 April 2008 (CDT)
  • Ah, nice one. I was thinking about that case when typing up the section below: - Miraglyth 09:56, 13 April 2008 (CDT)
• Nice work, guys! I appreciate it!  :D - EspioKaos 10:59, 13 April 2008 (CDT)
  • Haha, hey now. We all know you pretty much run this place :P But we're putting the work in to improve it as well, not for your appreciation :P - Miraglyth 13:31, 13 April 2008 (CDT)
• Glad you got it. To further the argument a bit, I realize the table was shitty, horribly bloated and by now probably outdated, but arguably its possible uses would come down to comparing stuff between monsters like stats or SEs. We'd probably need a more up-to-date version with current stats (hi CE-users) and AoI additions (second bible?), but, uh, yeah. A next version would probably need removal of offline data, no-wrap and smaller text/cells to be of more use. Oh, and perhaps have all the excessive text go into wiki references or whatever. Heck, I suppose most of the stats and SE stuff were pretty much categorizable into monster types in the first place, so I guess it doesn't really matter much. :/ - Tycho 22:15, 13 April 2008 (CDT)
  • Er? Was this posted in the right talk page? - Miraglyth 07:14, 14 April 2008 (CDT)

Post-template table unification

• Alright, with that out the way there's a few issues that I don't believe have been brought up yet:
  • Capitalising the start of the template tags - Yay or nay? Personally I would've thought that it'd be simpler to leave it all lower case. I also believe existing templates (see: striking weapon stats) keep lower case too.
  • Use of "Enemy" - might it be an idea to change it to something more neutral like "source"? Otherwise you're using an "Enemy" tag for missions as well, which isn't really an issue but it's funny.
  • When the drop is from a mission, is it always assumed to be from a boss box?
• All of the above in this section thusfar: Miraglyth 09:56, 13 April 2008 (CDT)
• I was considering what you mentioned concerning the use of Enemy when I started on this. Using Source would be fine with me and make more sense when identifying missions and areas as drops. And on the boss box thing, as far as I know, when a mission is listed, it's always considered a boss box drop. - EspioKaos 10:59, 13 April 2008 (CDT)
• Surely Psycho Wand, Agito and the original Creas were not from boss boxes but from any monster in the relevant area? - Tycho 21:55, 13 April 2008 (CDT)
• And those are listed as dropping from "xxx" area, not specific missions. --Beatrixkiddo 23:04, 13 April 2008 (CDT)
• Psycho Wand, for example, was always listed as "RELICS area". - Miraglyth 07:11, 14 April 2008 (CDT)
• So, sticking with "Enemy" then? :P - Miraglyth 03:09, 22 April 2008 (CDT)
  • Oops, forgot about that. <_<; Fixing with Source now. - EspioKaos 08:55, 22 April 2008 (CDT)